Even God killed – Mungiki leader
AfricaNews interviewed Mathenge A.K.A Mnyama, the Mungiki
regional coordinator for central Nairobi.
Wednesday 13 February 2008
By Dennis Itumbi, AfricaNews reporter in Nairobi, Kenya
[INTERVIEW] After being hunted down as being an outlawed sect, the
Mungiki came back to the Kenyan public arena in January, this time
as warriors fighting for president Mwai Kibaki. Since then, their
influence and power have been increasing.
Mathenge: Sorry I do not respond to such greetings they have
aspects of colonialism which we fought so hard in the Mau Mau
period, look at the richness of greetings such as Thaai, or
nyororokete (Spelling may be wrong) they represent a wholesome
answer. (We skip the introductory section of the interview)
AfricaNews.com: When did you join Mungiki?
Mathenge: Eight years ago, then I was a tax collector, but I rose
through the ranks.
AfricaNews.com: You sound educated. Would you wish to share your
Mathenge: After my high school education in Kangaru and Mangu high
School, I joined the University of Nairobi where I did a BA in
Philosophy with a bias on (Religious) logic, I then did my Maters
Degree at St. Paul’s Theological College in Limuru and specialized
in African Theology.
AfricaNews.com: So it’s correct to say that you qualify to be an
Mathenge: Sure, but I refuse to be ordained until African Theology
takes over. For example ask yourself why do Churches take
alcoholic wine and preach against it? Why are we told of vineyards
instead of Maize plantations? Instead of pellets church leaders
should have bread made from wholesome wheat, Facing Mt. Kirinyaga
is a religious concept even Jesus faced the skies…focus is
important and Mungiki has a focus
AfricaNews.com: Are you involved in the post-election violence?
Mathenge: No we are not, those are just people who are using our
AfricaNews.com: What focus does Mungiki have other than killing
people to scare others to do what they want?
Mathenge: First let me warn you that if this interview has to go
on you have to ask about facts…
AfricaNews.com: Sorry to interrupt but it’s a fact that Mungiki
has been killing people, just tell us why?
Mathenge: True we have been killing people but you have to
understand us, even God in the Old Testament killed people who did
not toe the line of the Law. We have been killing defectors, and
those who refuse to pay their dues for our services and that will
AfricaNews.com: You are yet to answer why? That is after killing
them you lose people who would in future have paid your ‘taxes’
Mathenge: Young man! You do not understand. We do not waste our
time. We ask you to pay taxes and if you refuse we act on you. No
negotiations, Give unto Ceasar what belongs unto Ceasar…
AfricaNews.com: How many people are in Mungiki Countrywide?
Mathenge: We had our last National Convention in April 2007 in
Thogoto and we realized we had recruited 45,000 new members we are
now about 2.8 million, of course excluding Women and Children.
AfricaNews.com: What are the benefits of joining Mungiki
Mathenge: When I come to recruit you I will tell you, we don’t
recruit through the media so I won’t answer that question
AfricaNews.com: Politicians have been mentioned as being part of
this movement what is your reaction?
Mathenge: Sometimes I laugh when I see them denying and laugh more
when the media refuses to read in between the lines
AfricaNews.com: So you have a chance today, tell me about the
Mathenge: I know you are going to interview General (the
underground name for Joe Waiganjo the acting leader of the group)
so let him tell you, but let me tell you they are many and soon we
actually sponsored a few of our members and they are now in
AfricaNews.com: so is Mungiki a criminal grouping or is it
Mathenge: It is political and religious, look when Jesus came on
earth he said he was the King of the Jews that is political, then
he said he has come to restore salvation that is religious and
that is our mission. You don’t even need to ask that question
remember the recent meeting in Michuki’s office? Ask yourself why
politicians were meeting?
AfricaNews.com: Mungiki appears to be a group of lazy people who
do not value the ethics of hard work what’s your reaction?
Mathenge: Lazy? You think it’s easy to raise Shs 2 billion a year?
Look at our leadership and members do you see any of them begging?
Simple because we do not use a microphone like you does not mean
we are lazy we are very hard working, we patrol estates and keep
security, arrest pick-pockets, settle cases of marital
consequences, buy food for those who cannot afford, In Kiambu for
example we run 4 children homes. You still call us lazy? It is you
who are lazy, your job is solely to follow people
AfricaNews.com: If you are so brutal on defectors why have you not
killed Waruinge and he has publicly said he has defected or even
Maina Njenga who has even been baptized?
Mathenge: They are alive because we know they have not moved,
there are clear structures on how resignations of top leaders are
handled, look they were once Muslims remember that conversion? Now
they are Christians, maybe tomorrow they will be Hindu but the
bottom line is that they are still part of us
AfricaNews.com: Final Question, if you became the President or the
Minister for Internal Security how would you fight Mungiki?
Mathenge: I would adopt them as a crucial part of the economy..
AfricaNews.com: Thank You we will be back with questions from
Kenyans who have questions..
Mathenge: I will give you my email address, I check it on